That NEW Adage

A pressure-relief valve about God, and just about everything else.

“The Defense Rests. The Defense is Sleepy.”

The following is a conversation I had with a person on this blog in the form of a comment he, or she left in response to a post (“Charlatan’s Web”) I wrote about Word of Faith charlatans and their obsession with materialism. I felt the need to publish it in this form because I wrote so MUCH! No, really, I felt that it summed up the feelings of those in the WoF congregation, and identified why a defense of orthodoxy is necessary. I mean not to offend by posting this since his comment was made public. The first portion of what follows is his comment, unedited. The second section is mine. I hope this reaches some.

He said:

  i think you guys are missing everything! what’s wrong with being a christian and have the blessing of the Lord over your family and wealth? can we not be rich and righteous. there’s nothing wrong with money, it’s the love of money that is wrong. we can have victory over any circumstances in our lives because Jesus went to the cross, died, and rose from the dead to take the authority from the devil and gave it back to us humans. that authority to speak and have power was once lost when Adam gave it away in the garden of Eden. if you truly listen to the message from ministers from WoF is that we’re giving all the glory, honor, and everything we own to God. it’s through obedience, faith, and spirit led that we’re blessed. “if you seek the kingdom of God first, then he will add everything onto you.” to see a harvest you must plant a seed and feed that seed with your faith. that seed is going to help bless someone and i don’t care who it is as long as God see that i am obeying him someone will come my way to help me. i say that it is true we give our 10% that belongs to God and offerings on top. it’s through giving that i have become a better person…now, i’m not rich! but i’m rich in the holy spirit and i’m in line for my blessing. when someone gets blessed with what they hoped for…i don’t get mad or jealous…i’m like…wow, God is great. if you look in the old testament kind david and other kings were rich…and he did a lot of things that would not get away today. he was a murderer and committed adultery. CNN & FOX, would have a field day about a man of God who did that. but look God forgave him and he repented and his wealth passed on. people think that Jesus was poor…it never said that in the bible…why would God send his only son to be broke…Jesus talks a lot about prosperity through God. i don’t think anyone of us has ever took money advice from a bum.

  • Comment by hmmm..  October 11, 2007
  • I  replied: 

      No, the fact is that I think that you are missing a couple of things… First, the point is not that I think God wants everyone poor, which is the straw-man argument the WoF uses, but that He wants us CONTENT in whatever state we find ourselves, as the Bible teaches. And the VICTORY that we can have in our “circumstances” is to be resigned to God’s will, whatever that is.

    Jesus did not go to the cross for that or any authority, but to RECONCILE us to the Father, to HEAL the rift between us, NOT to heal cancer or such, which is the proper, broad context of Isaiah 53:4, 5. The PHYSICAL portion of that passage was completely fulfilled in Matthew 8:16-17. Please read it. And please read the context– before and after– any such passage you hear quoted. No matter WHO teaches it. This is your Christian duty.

    That stuff about Adam having lost the “authority to speak and have power…” Please show me where the actual BIBLE teaches that. And other of the teachings of WoF teachers that take authority- and divinity– from God, and give it to man.

    I humbly suggest that WoF ministers do NOT give glory to God (precisely by claiming that men are in any way god material), but they usurp the glory of God and give glory to “Faith,” man and mammon! They brag about STUFF, and whip folk into frenzies about all the STUFF God is trying to get to them. They tell sick people that their lack of faith, not God’s sovereignty, is alone the reason for their sickness. This is dangerous.

    In the Sermon on the Mount, which is where you got your quote about “seeking first the kingdon of God…”, PLEASE note that the context of the entire sermon is not about being rich. And the near, specific context of your statement, Matthew 6:33, clearly shows that The LORD is not speaking of being rich and diabetes-free, but of being CONTENT, and worry-free. Please notice that.

    I cannot stress this next point more strongly: Please notice that in the SAME chapter, Jesus tells us “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth… store up for yourselves treasures in heaven,” for your heart will be where your treasure is!!! That is to say, if you focus so strongly on earthly wealth and materialism, that is what you will worship.

    The Bible never says that Jesus was poor? Allow me to differ! Everything about his life says He was poor. There is no shame in being poor. He “Made Himself nothing,” His parents were of meager means, He was born in a stinking sheep stable, “birds of the air had nests, but the Son of Man had nowhere to lay His head.” Five-member churches have treasurers, so spare me the Avanzini, T.D. Jakes quotes. I could go on. He even told a RICH guy to go and sell everything he had in order to follow Jesus. But the guy loved his stuff too much.

    And SEEDS in the Bible are more likely DEEDS than MONEY! That is a ploy to get ours.

    We who decry the false teacher are not doing so because we are “jealous” of their money. I certainly am not! As a matter of fact, it is ALWAYS the WoF adherents whom I constantly hear gleefully yelling about “the wealth of the wicked being lain up for the just!” and delighting in being “the head, and not the tail.” (Didn’t Jesus chastise His disciples for arguing over status?)

    Yes, David was rich. As was Abraham, Solomon, Job, Joseph and many others. But the often-missed point is that many saints were dirt poor. And they were no more less blessed than the rich ones. God is able to work through ALL, rich, AND poor. This shows that financial status is no determinant in being blessed by God. And I never heard Creflo or any of the others quote the passage about asking God to make us content in whatever state we find ourselves. We don’t have to lie on Jesus’ tax bracket in order to rationalize our desire, not for God, but for what is in His HAND!

    God says His strength is made known through our weakness. And if we get our status from what we have, rather than in the service of God, we essentially say we don’t need His help, and the reward we get here is all that we will get!

    Finally, find out what true prosperity is. God sent “His only Son to be broke,” as you say, perhaps because in that way, the lowest of the low can beseech Him and identify with Him. I bet you can’t “touch the hem of Creflo Dollar’s garment” without getting a beatdown! Also, God came in meager humanity and can identify with OUR hunger, pain, and weakness.

    Come on up in your thinking. Life is not all, not even MOSTLY, about money! Money should be our servant, not the Master whose presence we so fervently desire! That is all I am trying to say here.

    I am not trying to belittle you or disrespect you. It is just that I can’t stand seeing people robbed in broad daylight. God bless you, Derrick.

    This is what they want: They want your MONEY. Period. They don’t want you informed. They don’t want you scholarly or Berean. They want you GREEDY! They want you like chirping baby chicks– open-mouthed and empty-minded. They don’t love God OR you. Only your pennies and quarters. Read your bibles. During the week. Learn about CONTEXT! This will eliminate a lot of the Scripture-pretzelizing that goes on in a lot of churches.

    I don’t say this because I want your money. Maybe this endeavor will send up timber, as the old folks say, although I want a BRICK mansion, not a wooden one! I only write about crooked preachers because they are biblically-armed robbers, and it is Christian work to make a citizen’s arrest, as that theologian, Barney Fife, would say.

    I thought I would have a lot of people reading about some of the other stuff I’ve posted. I’ve written about race, parenting my boy, Max, atheism, music, and lots of other things, but nope! False teachers seem to be the squeaky hinges that need all the grease!

    October 12, 2007 Posted by | Charlatans, Christianity, Creflo Dollar, False Doctrine, False Prophets, False Teachers, Frederick Price, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Pulpit Pimps, T.D. Jakes, TBN, Televangelists, The Nature of God, Word of Faith | 7 Comments